Legislature(1997 - 1998)

01/23/1998 09:00 AM Senate HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
      SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE                   
                         January 23, 1998                                      
                            9:00 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
                                                                               
Senator Gary Wilken, Chairman                                                  
Senator Loren Leman, Vice-Chairman                                             
Senator Lyda Green                                                             
                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
                                                                               
Senator Jerry Ward                                                             
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                           
                                                                               
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
                                                                               
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 170(HES)                                                 
"An Act relating to interference with the rights of physically and             
mentally challenged persons; and relating to service animals during            
their pre-training and training period."                                       
                                                                               
     HEARD AND HELD                                                            
                                                                               
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                               
                                                                               
HB 170 - No previous Senate committee action.                                  
                                                                               
WITNESS REGISTER                                                               
                                                                               
Representative Tom Brice                                                       
Alaska State Capitol                                                           
Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 170.                                        
                                                                               
Jessica Irmen                                                                  
P.O. Box 4191                                                                  
Soldotna, Alaska  99669                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170.                                          
                                                                               
Rae Baggen                                                                     
5311 Halibut Point Road                                                        
Sitka, Alaska  99835                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170.                                          
                                                                               
Suzanne Price                                                                  
P.O. Box 84951                                                                 
Fairbanks, Alaska  99708                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 170.                                      
                                                                               
Serena Murray                                                                  
P.O. Box 2598                                                                  
Kenai, Alaska  99611                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170.                                          
                                                                               
Roger Hansen                                                                   
4-H Club                                                                       
1887 Southern Ave.                                                             
Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 170.                                      
                                                                               
Sharon Bell                                                                    
Access Alaska                                                                  
3550 Airport Way, Suite 3                                                      
Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170.                                          
                                                                               
David Jacobsen, Director                                                       
Access Alaska                                                                  
4214 Mathison Court                                                            
Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170.                                          
                                                                               
Dan Labrosse                                                                   
Deaf Community Services                                                        
475 Hall Street                                                                
Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170.                                          
                                                                               
Vicki Horodyski                                                                
North Star Council of the Blind                                                
1035 Ballaine Road                                                             
Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170.                                          
                                                                               
Amorette Kennedy                                                               
Guide Dog Trainers                                                             
P.O. Box 11                                                                    
Ninilchik, Alaska  99639                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 170.                                           
                                                                               
Cheryl Hall                                                                    
Southeast Alaska Independent Living                                            
P.O. Box 35097                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99803                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170 with changes.                             
                                                                               
Patty Baumgartner                                                              
P.O. Box 21491                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99802                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170 with changes.                             
                                                                               
Diane Biggness                                                                 
9147 Parkwood Drive                                                            
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170 with changes.                             
                                                                               
Lynn Koral                                                                     
Alaska Independent Blind                                                       
1102 W International Airport Road                                              
Anchorage, Alaska                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 170.                                      
                                                                               
Nancy Andison                                                                  
9346 Parview Court                                                             
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 170 with changes.                             
                                                                               
Darrin Jones                                                                   
P.O. Box 33265                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99803                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 170.                                      
                                                                               
Barbara Turner                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 170.                                       
                                                                               
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                               
                                                                               
TAPE 98-4, SIDE A                                                              
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
       HB 170 - SERVICE ANIMALS FOR PHYS/MENT. CHALLENGED                      
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN called the Senate Health, Education and Social                 
Services (HESS) Committee to order at 9:06 a.m.  Present were                  
Senators Wilken, Leman, and Green.   The first order of business               
before the committee was HB 170.                                               
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE, sponsor of HB 170, gave the following                
overview of the bill.  The American Disabilities Act (ADA) requires            
access to public accommodations for the disabled.  HB 170 extends              
that right to animals being trained as service animals  so that                
those animals can be socialized in areas where they will be                    
providing services.  HB 170 does not establish state certification             
or determine who can train service animals.  It only allows                    
trainers access to places such as state court buildings, the ferry             
system, and the Palmer and Tanana fairs.                                       
                                                                               
Number 066                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN suggested changing the penalty from a class B                    
misdemeanor to a violation to streamline the process.                          
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the penalty was designated as a class B              
misdemeanor by the legal drafters to be consistent with the penalty            
established in AS 11.76.130 (interfering with the rights of                    
disabled persons).  He noted if the committee feels a violation is             
more appropriate, he would be agreeable to that change.                        
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN thought the Senate Judiciary committee would be the              
appropriate place to address the penalty issue and noted his                   
interest in reclassifying the penalty is to accomplish the same                
goal while using a less burdensome process.  SENATOR LEMAN asked               
Representative Brice to find out the number of misdemeanors                    
prosecuted under that statute.                                                 
                                                                               
Number 112                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN said she spoke with staff at the Palmer State Fair               
about the incidents in which animals in training were not permitted            
on the fairgrounds.  Fairground staff are reviewing the policy but             
suspect the problem is insurance related.  She expects a response              
from fairground staff next week.  She suggested amending the bill              
to require trainers and service dogs in training to have some form             
of identification so that proprietors can easily determine whether             
the dog and trainer are legitimately on the premises.                          
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE pointed out Section 2(C) prohibits a                      
proprietor from being charged if the trainer does not provide                  
reasonable evidence of authorization to train a service animal.  He            
said most trainers wear a coat that is easily recognizable and the             
animals usually wear a green cape.                                             
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Representative Brice to consider Senator                 
Leman's comments about the penalty provision and to provide the                
committee with new language or suggestions to resolve the issue.               
He then took telelconference testimony.                                        
                                                                               
JESSICA IRMEN, representing Guide Dog Raisers in Alaska, spent 1+              
years raising a guide dog puppy for the blind.  Service dogs in                
training have already had obedience training as puppies and can                
enter any public facility and behave appropriately.  She emphasized            
it is crucial that guide dogs in training have access to all public            
facilities and as many different situations as possible to be                  
successful.                                                                    
                                                                               
RAE BAGGEN, testifying from Sitka, said it is very important that              
the disabled have the ability to come and go within their                      
communities, in both rural and urban areas.  She stated the expense            
of getting a trained service dog from other states can be                      
prohibitive. She commended the committee for its work.                         
                                                                               
Number 250                                                                     
                                                                               
SUZANNE PRICE, representing Guide Dog Raisers in Alaska, made the              
following comments.  She has raised guide dog puppies for close to             
30 years and recently raised a dog for Leader Dogs for the Blind,              
sponsored by the Lions Club.  Alaska represents a few programs that            
socialize and train service animals. Guide dogs must be                        
familiarized with the places the new owner will be going.  Places              
that have posed problems in the past are the state office building,            
the state ferry, the state fair, the Court buildings and the large             
mall in downtown Anchorage; the only one in Alaska that                        
approximates malls in the Lower 48.  Most private businesses in                
Fairbanks have been extremely cooperative with trainers.  The                  
Leader Dog Project, run by the 4-H Club, operates without                      
government money: the work is voluntary, and the blind person                  
receives the dog free of charge.  The 4-H Club believes it is                  
important to show youth the value of giving back to the community              
by providing free training.                                                    
                                                                               
ROGER HANSEN, representing the 4-H Club, testified.  He has raised             
about 30 guide dogs over 30 years and has been asked to leave many             
establishments because a dog in training was accompanying him.                 
Puppy raisers in the 4-H program do carry insurance yet he has                 
never seen or heard of any damage done by any dogs while training              
in public.                                                                     
                                                                               
SHARON BELL, representing Access Alaska, and herself as a legally              
blind person, stated her support for HB 170.  Puppies need to have             
access to public places early in life so that they can learn more              
specific skills in their second year of life.                                  
                                                                               
DAVID JACOBSEN, Director of the Anchorage and Fairbanks programs of            
Access Alaska, and representing himself as a legally blind person,             
testified in support of HB 170.  The disabled need the opportunity             
for integration in their communities, and to live and/or work                  
independently.  Service animals are one tool necessary to obtain               
those goals.                                                                   
                                                                               
Number 343                                                                     
                                                                               
DAN LABROSSE stated he works with Deaf Community Services in                   
Fairbanks, and has worked with clients who use hearing aid dogs.               
Although those dogs usually wear orange-collared capes for                     
identification, he has seen clients encounter problems with                    
employers and private businesses.  He supports HB 170 because                  
hearing aid dogs are as vital to a person's independence as seeing             
eye guide dogs, as well as other service animals for the physically            
impaired.  He believed it is important to keep the class B                     
misdemeanor penalty classification for the purpose of consistency.             
                                                                               
VICKY HORODYSKI, representing the North Star Council for the Blind,            
testified in support of HB 170.  Some of her members use service               
dogs rather than seeing-eye guide dogs.  She believes guide dogs               
can be more easily trained if training begins when they are                    
puppies, and that using volunteers for training provides more                  
puppies at a lower cost.                                                       
                                                                               
SERENA MURRAY, representing Guide Dog Trainers, testified from                 
Kenai.  She said that access to all public facilities by puppies in            
training will ultimately benefit the dogs' users the most.                     
                                                                               
AMORETTE KENNEDY, representing the 4-H Guide Dog Raisers, has found            
that businesses on the Kenai Peninsula are generally very                      
supportive of this project, but noted she has been asked to leave              
some.  She agreed dogs in training need socialization as early as              
possible. 4-H trainers take training seriously and feel it is                  
important to educate the public about what they are doing.                     
                                                                               
Number 420                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN noted three service dogs were attending the hearing            
and that two were napping.                                                     
                                                                               
CHERYL HALL, Assistant Director of Southeast Alaska Independent                
Living (SAIL), stated support for the issue.  Some disabled                    
people's lives and their ability to be independent are vastly                  
improved with the aid of service animals.  No longer are guide dogs            
only for the blind; animals are now trained to help deaf and                   
physically challenged people.  Training in public places is                    
imperative so that puppies can be exposed to situations which they             
will eventually confront, such as malls, traffic, airplanes,                   
ferries, and people.  Several of SAIL's consumers have expressed               
concern that animals they train on their own may have to go outside            
of Alaska to receive specialized training for certification.                   
                                                                               
MS. HALL explained the ADA provided for the use of service animals             
by the disabled by requiring that the animals be qualified, not                
certified.  By using the word "qualified," those who want to train             
their animals with community assistance may do so, but the animal              
must behave appropriately and be identified in some way.  The                  
standard is more important than certification.  The animal must be             
obedience-trained and then trained to a high standard in a                     
particular discipline.  Once sent out of state, most of the puppies            
being socialized in Alaska do not return.  Southeast residents are             
interested in having their animals locally trained because the                 
terrain is different; the weather and lighting conditions are                  
unique, roads are not paved in many communities, and concrete                  
sidewalks do not exist.  She said one of her clients is 55, lives              
in a rural area, and has been told by three schools that it will               
take at least six years to get a dog.  Over the past year, SAIL has            
been working with the Gastineau Humane Society to train animals                
from the pound as service animals.  At present, one dog is being               
trained to be a hearing dog.  After the dog's training, the dog                
will be a qualified service animal; the legislation needs to                   
address this type of situation.                                                
                                                                               
PATTY BAUMGARTNER, an artist and advocate for people with                      
disabilities, testified in support of HB 170, but expressed the                
following concerns.  The word "certified" presents a problem                   
because a puppy cannot be certified while in training.  The ADA                
uses the word "qualified."  Currently no state certification                   
program exists therefore no local trainers can be certified.  She              
noted she has  provided local training for dogs who are already                
certified.                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN asked if Ms. Baumgartner has been asked to leave                 
establishments even though her dog is fully trained.  MS.                      
BAUMGARTNER said she had.  SENATOR GREEN asked if HB 170 would                 
change that.  MS. BAUMGARTNER said she and her dog graduated as a              
working team, but there is no one to certify them in Alaska. She               
noted using the word "certified" in HB 170 implies that there will             
be a certification program.  She repeated the ADA requires animals             
to be qualified, not certified.  She warned, however, the disabled             
community is concerned that unscrupulous people will bring their               
pets in public places under the guise of service dog training.                 
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN noted her continuing concern that HB 170 does not                
address the problem of shop owners prohibiting trainers with fully             
trained dogs from entering their premises.  She felt there should              
be a quick identification mechanism on the animal in training so               
that the trainer does not have to seek out permission to be on the             
premises.                                                                      
                                                                               
MS. BAUMGARTNER suggested having the Division of Motor Vehicles                
issue IDs, similar to those issued for search and rescue dogs, and             
requiring the dogs to wear some identifying tag or marker.                     
                                                                               
DIANE BIGGNESS, a Juneau shop owner, stated strong support for HB
170, but discussed two problems with the bill.  The first is in                
Section 2(a) and refers to the authorized person in charge of                  
training the dog.  The definition of "authorized" requires the                 
person to be employed by, or serving as a volunteer with, a school,            
agency, or other facility that trains service animals.  No such                
agency exists in Southeast yet many qualified people train dogs                
here.  That requirement would either negate the training that is               
currently occurring, or would force the government to establish a              
school or an agency to authorize existing trainers.  Changing the              
word to "qualified" and offering an identification mechanism would             
allow trainers like Ms. Baumgartner to continue training.                      
                                                                               
MS. BIGGNESS explained the second problem is the use of the term               
"certified animal" because a dog in training is not certified.  She            
explained a lengthy process occurs before one can determine whether            
a dog is qualified to be trained.  Therefore, many dogs are pre-trained but do 
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN clarified the term "certified service animal" is in              
existing law, and does not refer to animals in training.                       
                                                                               
MS. BIGGNESS repeated her concern with the word "authorized."                  
                                                                               
Number 578                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE explained that the word "authorized" was                  
intended to mean some sort of affiliation with an organization,                
such as SAIL.  He noted this issue was discussed last session, and             
he wanted to stay away from the idea of certification in this bill.            
His intent is to simply have a trainer affiliate with an                       
organization that is training dogs.                                            
                                                                               
MS. BIGGNESS responded that is why she felt the word "qualified"               
was better than "authorized" because existing trainers will have to            
contact and align with an agency to continue to train.                         
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Representative Brice to work with Ms.                    
Biggness and others involved on that problem before the bill is                
rescheduled.                                                                   
                                                                               
Number 565                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN thought the definition of the word "authorized"                  
should provide for qualified trainers who do not want to be                    
affiliated with a school or agency.                                            
                                                                               
LYNN KORAL, State President of the Alaska Independent Blind, stated            
she disagreed with previous speakers for the following reasons.                
Certain schools do come to Alaska to do domicile training.                     
Standards are critical otherwise animals may not get adequate                  
training.  She questioned why all agencies should be given the                 
right to say they can train dogs.  Her association is not                      
interested in stopping people from using dogs as guide dogs, but it            
does want to see some training standards required to protect the               
people who rely on trained dogs.  MS. KORAL said she does support              
allowing service dogs in training to have access to public                     
facilities.                                                                    
                                                                               
Number 505                                                                     
                                                                               
NANCY ANDISON, representing herself, had her service dog deliver               
paperwork to Chairman Wilken.  She explained that the paperwork is             
a collection of comments she received from the public about her                
dog.  She trained her dog from the start after being told it would             
take seven or eight years to get a dog from a training program.                
She would have had to travel to California for three weeks for the             
training which would have been expensive and impractical for her.              
She believes it does not matter who trains the animals, if the dog             
can meet certain standards, just as it is not important who teaches            
a person to drive if that person passes the test, and that                     
eventually standards will be established.  In the meantime, there              
are a lot of people who realize that puppies in training need to be            
socialized at an early age.  She expressed concern about language              
in HB 170 requiring trainers to be affiliated with a school.  She              
stressed that many schools have waiting lists of many years for                
trained dogs.  She also expressed concern about the lack of                    
identification for trainers.  She stated she is very supportive of             
HB 170, except for the concerns she mentioned.  She asked anyone               
interested on the teleconference to call her to work on this                   
legislation.                                                                   
                                                                               
DARRIN JONES, representing the Gastineau Humane Society, stated                
that whether the word certified or qualified is used, situations in            
Alaska are quite unique.  He noted that because of the size of                 
Alaska, it is sometimes difficult and impractical for an owner to              
travel to the Lower 48 to train their dog.  He expressed concern               
that non-disabled pet owners will take advantage of the legislation            
if the word "qualified" is used, and that a poorly trained guide               
dog can be a danger to its owner.  He felt no matter which word is             
used, someone will have to ensure that the dog is adequately                   
trained.                                                                       
                                                                               
BARBARA TURNER, representing herself, stated her service dog is                
able to pull her wheelchair, and alerts her when the doorbell                  
rings, since she is hearing impaired.  Her dog began training when             
he was seven years old.  She would have to wait two to five years              
to get a dog from a school.  The only documentation she has for her            
service dog is paperwork from SAIL, which is updated annually.                 
                                                                               
BARBARA IRMEN clarified that Guide Dog puppy raisers do carry                  
training identification.                                                       
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN WILKEN repeated his intent to hold the legislation for                
further work.  He thanked all participants and adjourned the                   
meeting at 9:50 a.m.                                                           
                                                                               

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